Monday, 16 May 2011

Catching up on responses

Anon: "I'm glad to see that you decided to create your own group because I refuse to have people that 100% reject hadith to be lecturing and teaching new muslims in my group and disrespecting the fact that almost all members were not appreciative of it. However, I will not join your group and preach that you are wrong, and mislead others as you and bento box did to everyone in my group. You never provide any links to sources other than a "Quranist" Muslim website and that is not an effective way to teach new Muslims. Subhanallah. (I'm sure you will delete this comment because it is against your wishes just like you and bento did with me, yet I didn't delete your comments, I left them to show the rest of the group and allow the rest of the group to comment on it all.) If you are true to your words about criticisms and people not conforming to your "SECT" as you stated to me, you will leave my post as I left yours and Bento box's. The shoe is on the other foot now.....let see if you like the negative criticisms posted to you.

Bento Box Asfora: I am very open to constructive criticism. I will take your word for it that my posts are still on there, thank you for that. I can't check because I have been removed from the group so cannot see anything now! Can you re-add me please?





Anon: "oh, and at Bento box....."QURANIST" is a sect whether you want to call it one or not. You can twist it all you want, but when you make yourself identifiable as a hadith rejector, you have separated yourself....therefore you ARE a sect, like it or not."

Bento Box Asfora: Here are some articles you might find to be of interest:


Anon "everyone was welcome in my group as well, however, what gets taught has to follow a particular line of Islam. when you are trying to teach new muslims, you kinda have to pick a path of what is taught and shared (sunni teachings, or shia teachings, or sufi teachings, or whatever...cause you can't mix them)......cause otherwise you will have shia promoting Muta' marriage, the Sunni disgusted by it, both calling the others kafirs, and sufis trying to push their stuff and no one will be in the group by the end of the day no one will find the group beneficial or worth supporting from any sect if it is not primarily following one path....just wait and see....at some point, you will have to make a decision about what gets posted and not, even when it comes to the prayers....the sunni and shia don't pray the same, and so many other differences, so how can you support a new muslim in an environment where all the various sects are trying to push their teachings? all it will do is confuse the hell out of reverts and they will leave islam when they see so much conflict and disunity, and innovations. I promise it is not something that is beneficial to any new muslim, whether that new muslim is a shia, a sunni, sufi, or whatever, they will find it not benefiting and find people giving others "warnings" about your group to stay away...who wants that?.....you will have to one day pick a path."

Bento Box Asfora: The Qur'an unites us all, alhamdulillah. Quranism is an umbrella term that includes all approaches to islam from varying understandings, beliefs and interpretations where the Quran is believed to be the sole authority. Quranism is quite the opposite of a sect due to its inclusivity of all approaches to quranic islam and has no set commands of belief or requirements, no leader or authority-head and does not excommunicate anyone who disagrees or has a difference of opinion. Quranism does not profess to be the only way to salvation. Quranism, by its nature of this universal inclusivity does include by definition, in principle, even those who demonstrate sectarian attitudes with claims that their view is the only true belief, even though most Quranists do not endorse such views and even though the ones demonstrating the sectarian attitude do not generally accept the terms Quranist or Quranism. For more information about Quranists, please visit http://Quranists.net


Anon: "about rejecting hadith 100%....My comments are actually more directed to Bento than anyone else on that, and the fact that you support eerything she states means there is some connection there. However, I've never heard of any 'Sunnis' that hold hadith as "holy" or anything like that. They are the "sunnah", and as we know, sunnah is not obligatory, but optional and suggested, but Bento, and you both were rejecting basically every hadith and discrediting ALL hadith everytime the word hadith was mentioned, and Bento can't seem to state one sentence about any topic that is not promoting people to be Quranist Muslim and without providing a link to a Quranist website as if it is the only website that exists out there."

Bento Box Asfora: Please see this link about Hadith Rejection. I never claimed to "reject hadiths 100%" nor did I incite anyone else to do that. I do have a copy of the thread and what I found, looking back, is that I either posted Quran verses or links to published articles, indeed from a Quranist website. The name of the website is quranists.net which has lots of information dispelling the misconceptions about Quranists and Quranism. This link will hopefully clear up any misunderstandings. Quranist response to the term Hadith Rejector: http://www.quranists.net/2011/05/11/the-term-hadith-rejector/


Anon: "that is why i stated in my group that if you don't agree (because you are a shia or a sufi, or whatever) with what the admins post which is primarily mainstream sunni teachings, to overlook it and just benefit from the rest of the things and support, but I won't tolerate those of those other sects 'teaching' their material that is against mainstream sunni islam in my group.....anyone would do that regardless of what path they follow.....right? so, people were welcome, but they can't just start teaching and insulting others and whathaveyou with their teachings. understand?"

Bento Box Asfora : Just a sincere suggestion - maybe you could rename your group to "Sunni Revert Support". That might be more clear/honest/upfront so as not to unintentionally deceive/confuse anyone.


Anon: "No one is stating to not teach Quran by any means, but why does the shahada include the blessings on the prophet PBUH if we are not supposed to follow him, as he was guided by Allah? We are supposed to follow the teachings of jesus, and moses, etc PBUT too, but to not teach their life and follow their practice (they were examples for us to follow and learn from as our teachers) is like the blind leading the blind. the prophet was sent not only to reveal the revelations but to TEACH them as stated in the quran, so, if Allah didn't want us to follow his example, then he would have just had the Quran drop from the sky, cause that would be the ultimate miracle wouldn't it not?"

Bento Box Asfora: Not sure exactly what you mean by "the shahada includes the blessings on the prophet". Do you have a Quran reference for it? By the way, you might be interested to see this article entitled "Prophetic examples from the Quran": http://www.quranists.net/2011/04/29/prophetic-examples-from-the-quran/


Anon: "so, how would you handle in your group when people are teaching the sunnah (hadiths) ? are you just going to delete all their posts and state that only quran is allowed?"

Bento Box Asfora: Good question. I personally hope most people will be intelligent enough to be able to sort the wheat from the chaff. Allah guides who He wills. I personally feel that trying to protect the new "baby" reverts from every piece of information that does not agree with one's own beliefs is a cumbersome task for anyone, could be seen to be slightly manipulative or controlling. I think the organistation and administration of your group is really commendable though. I see you put a lot of work into it to keeping it neat and organised and everything documented, and keeping the unwanted ones out. I would like to be re-added to your group so I can continue to learn from your leadership and organisation skills if I may?


Anon : "it all sounds very easily in the hypothetical discussions of how you manage the group, but when it comes down to it, you will be ready to pull your hair out over the bickering that will take place. Every single posting will have arguments, people getting offended, insulted, and people will leave the group. Bento's remarks in JUST ONE THREAD caused over 10 people to leave the group........not because they agreed with her, but because they refuse to be in a group that had people disrespecting others and basically stating that all they believe is false because she was trying to convince everyone that hadith should be completely rejected and they didn't want to remain in the group because they felt it was misleading others and didn't want to be part of it. so, i promise you will face this if you allow ALL sects to post their teachings. people from ALL sects will leave, and the group would ONLY be a place for arguments and debates between those that are not really new muslims, but more advanced or born raised muslim...so, there goes the converts, and what you would have left is a bunch of people with big egos in constant debates."

Bento Box Asfora: No offence, and apologies if you think that the Quran verses I posted made people leave your group. Maybe they left because they found out the truth - that your group is teaching the Sunni path. Nothing wrong with that as there are many paths in islam, may Allah reward all the doers of good, inshaaAllah. I just think it would be better to be honest about it and upfront. I stated in my introduction to your group that I am a Quranist. Just trying to be honest so as not to deceive anyone. I am a muslim and I believe that Allah's words in the Quran are the sole authority. You said "you made the intentional statement that you were a "Quranist Muslim" and  if you didnt' want anyone to mention anything about it, maybe you should not have mentioned that, because you know yourself that most people do not agree to it" I don't fear what other people think of my beliefs, I fear only Allah, inshaaAllah and was just trying to be honest. But I respect your right to believe that it is acceptable and noble to teach new reverts Sunni Islam. Maybe you could make it clear on the group description to avoid confusion? I agree about the ego thing and agree we should remain humble and share what we have without claiming to have 100% the correct information as only Allah knows best.


Anon: "well, my group and no one in it has ever even suggested to commit violence or anything like that against other sects, etc......but it is about the educational materials shared in a group. People giving hadith etc about Witr prayer, and about jinn, etc is not anything to do with dividing people, etc....but these two threads in my group (the one on witr which caused and argument and insults between sufis and others, and the thread that bento and you were in on jinn was between quranists rejecting all hadith and the rest of the members).....they are simple topics, not that complex, but yet 10 people left the group over it.....as if they were discussing who are considered kafirs, or Muta' marriages, or grave worshiping, (and/or any other controversial topics between the sects)."

Bento Box Asfora: I didn't see any insults - I think I had been removed from the group before I was able to see the rest of that thread, maybe. People were sharing information with each other. Let's agree to disagree. Peace be upon you, I know your intentions are good. Salaam Aleykum

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